DERMOT DESMOND SPEAKS TO THE CELTIC SUPPORTERS ASSOCIATION

The CSA would like to thank Dermot Desmond for his time and his honesty in answering our questions face to face and at length. The interview came about after we recognised the need for the major shareholder to open a dialogue with the fans and to his credit he responded with no conditions sought. The CSA asked the questions and Dermot Desmond responded to each one. It is up to you, the reader, to make up your own mind into this unique insight into the most powerful man at Celtic Park.

Read on.....

Celtic fans don’t really know the real Dermot Desmond apart from what we read in the papers, which is how they want to portray you. Can you tell us a wee bit about the real Dermot Desmond that we don’t hear about?

I’m not really one who likes to speak about myself. I suppose what’s relevant is that I didn’t grow up with a silver spoon. I sold programmes in Tolka Park, which was home to Drumcondra F.C. at the time, and Croke Park at 10 and 11 years of age. I started work when I was eighteen, so as far as my background is concerned I can understand and I can relate to people who have to earn a weekly wage so I don’t have to be told what it’s like and I haven’t forgotten.

Where did you first develop your love for Celtic?

I was always interested in sport. Everyone in Ireland follows an English Premiership team and naturally we followed Celtic because if you are from Southern Ireland, 90% of the population follow Celtic and follow the traditions. Every Saturday you’d look for the results of your Premiership team and you’d look for the result of how Celtic did. If both teams won it was a good Saturday, if both teams lost it was a bad Saturday. Then of course that further developed with Celtic winning the European Cup, so that was the background to my love for Celtic.

Where were you when we won the European Cup? What was that like for you?

I was at school and I watched it standing up in front of a black and white television with about another 80 or 90 guys cheering on in front of a TV that couldn’t have been more than 15 inches. We were all banging the top of the desks when we won!

How did it feel then to become involved with Celtic with Fergus McCann? How did your involvement come about?

It came about when I was told that Celtic were going through a financial reconstruction plan and they needed money and they asked me if I’d put money into it. I looked at it and I decided they don’t need 2 million they need 4 million, so I said I will put in 4 million because there was no point in suffocating the Club for lack of money, so I did that with Fergus.

You are often quoted as saying your interest in Celtic is an emotional one rather than a financial one. Could you expand on exactly what that means?

I think if you invest in a football club in an environment like Celtic it doesn’t make commercial sense. The money that I’ve invested in Celtic, unless they change the environment, has been money that has been expended on players, that money has been driven out. The money that has gone in from shareholders generally and from myself has not given a return. So my continuous involvement with Celtic is firstly because I’m passionate about the club and secondly because I want us to succeed and thirdly I want it to succeed in a different environment.

Celtic have a massive support in Ireland and as a Club we are particularly proud of our Irish Catholic roots. Do you agree this should be seen as our strength and celebrated rather than hidden?

I don’t think we have anything to be embarrassed about at Celtic regarding our roots or anything like that. Nor do I think there should be any embarrassment about any club regarding its roots, it is what it is. There is a tradition there that we all respect and we all love. But there are also things that we don’t like, for example, we don’t like the conduct of some of our supporters, albeit a small minority. We should not be embarrassed about where we have come from and we should be the first to speak up against sectarianism and racism.

The Club’s finances are never far away from the front pages, how would you respond to fans who question your commitment to the Club?

When I hear fans question my commitment to the Club I’d like to tell them to go jump into the biggest river they can find, because for one they don’t even know what they’re talking about. It’s totally ignorant for them to say that all the problems are resolved by me putting money into the club, that will never be the case. I put money into the Club because I believe it’s the right thing to do for the Club and for the direction of the Club and the way I think it should be directed.

You are currently underwriting the present share issue, do you look upon this share issue as a fillip because of the money we lost when we crashed out of Europe?

No, it’s nothing to do with going into Europe or anything else. It’s going into the Club for development and its mainly going to the Lennoxtown training and Youth Development Centre and to bring down the level of debt at the Club. You could say if we were in Europe we might not have the same level of debt, but that’s dependant on results and so forth. The share issue was decided months ago, long before we knew we wouldn’t make the Champions League group stage.

So was the share issue part of a 5 year plan?

It was a key part of the plan, yes.

Are you saying that by underwriting the share issue by 10 million this is your way of answering the criticism?

Listen to me, I have had it over the last few years with people telling me to put more money into Celtic and I find it most irritating. I see the same match as you do, I have no more responsibility to put money into Celtic than you or anybody else for that matter. So why should I put money into Celtic more than you or anyone else?

The Training Academy is thankfully going to come into fruition on the back of this share issue. Do you see this as crucial in Celtic’s future that we are finally addressing this as a major part of the share issue?

I think what’s crucial at Celtic is what we’ve been doing for a long time and what really hasn’t been recognised. I don’t think supporters really recognise some of the major work that’s been done at the Club. If you talk to me about the major things that have happened at Celtic over the last 5 years, I think Brian Quinn as Chairman has been an outstanding success, I think Peter Lawwell coming in as Chief Executive for the last couple of years has been a great success and Martin O’Neill’s results speak for themselves. We changed Chairman, Chief Executive and Manager all in one year, and the Scottish papers criticise us but we ended up with a very successful Chairman and Manager and now we have a very good Chief Executive. Unfortunately Martin couldn’t continue because of Geraldine’s challenges and now we have Gordon Strachan. When Gordon Strachan joined there wasn’t a lot of support for him, especially when we lost against Artmedia, drew against Motherwell and then lost against Rangers. We made a statement and we said right throughout that the first judgement of Gordon would be after the last match of the season and the fans could shout all they like but it wasn’t going to change our opinion. If everybody says something is wrong, it doesn’t mean it’s wrong. That’s proved now where we’ve beaten Rangers in the Cup, we’re 12 points ahead of Rangers in the League and on the same level as Hearts. We still have challenges, Gordon has a lot of challenges but I think we have a lot of good structures in place at Celtic at the present time from the scouting side right through to planning for the future. What we have to concentrate on are the fundamental structures in place to take Celtic through to the next stage.

Is this your way forward for Celtic?

We have a good Stadium, good Chief Executive, good Manager, good fan base, good balanced finances and we have a strategic plan, which we’re implementing, so we’re improving the Club all along.

What has been the highlight of your involvement with Celtic? How did you feel in Seville? Many say the highlight was when the Fields of Athenry was played with 35,000 fans in the Stadium singing which was an illustration of where we came from and what we can achieve. Was that a highlight for you or was it the whole occasion?

It was the whole occasion. The whole atmosphere around the city, seeing all the Celtic supporters and their behaviour and seeing the goodwill and the dignity in which they wore the green and white. That was the pride for me but also the pride in the performance of the team. We were beaten but we could say we were unlucky at the same time. It was also for me a personal thing having been involved in bringing Martin to Celtic Park. It was like when you’re instrumental in something, we were all instrumental, I wouldn’t like to take the credit, it was the whole Board who were instrumental in bringing Martin to the Club. It was vindication of our judgement and of course there was the huge excitement in all those European nights.

Do you see Seville as a one off or do you see us returning to that stage or even the ultimate pinnacle for Celtic fans, which is a Champions League Final? Is this realistic?

It’s certainly within reality, I think if we’ve got there once we can get there again. It’s got to be recognised we have limitations because of the League we’re playing in. Football now is all about money and you can’t ignore that. We have a limited number of resources at Celtic but still we’re in the top 6 Clubs in the UK regarding resources and I think the top 20 Clubs in Europe so there’s no reason why not. Although I don’t think money will dictate totally whether you win or not, it’s certainly going to influence it. If I couldn’t see Gordon taking us to a European final then I don’t think we would have selected the right manager. I think he is capable. That will take time because he will need time to build a squad and to coach the squad. But I think it will happen. Also one thing we have got to recognise, and Martin would tell you this too, is that Martin O’Neill was left with some fantastic players particularly Larsson, Moravcik and he had Petrov so it wasn’t as if he didn’t inherit some key players and Martin would be the first to acknowledge that himself.

After Seville do you see it as a criticism that Celtic could have speculated more?

No. It’s one of the most stupid words I’ve ever heard, speculating on football. Speculating is throwing money away. Football speculation is oxymoronic.

Do you see it as a lost opportunity?

No. There’s no lost opportunity. There was no player that Martin asked for that he was refused. At the same time we weren’t going to go out there with a wad of money and buy up and say we have the divine right to get to the Champions League final and the UEFA Cup final again. It’s not a director’s responsibility to behave in that fashion and say we are going to invest in a whole lot of new players because we’ll get it back in Europe. If you take the equation of how much we got out of Europe and the money we spent, we overspent to get to the UEFA Cup final. We overspent in the Martin era to get where we are today and I’ve had no fans ever coming up to me and saying to me "thank you for overspending". Do you know why they don’t thank you for overspending? because they have never looked at a balance sheet and a profit and loss statement. We overspent to get us where we are. I think the highest money we’ve ever got from Scottish TV was three million and it’s dropped down to one and a half million. There is no money there whilst the smallest team in the Premiership gets 20 million. People want to talk to me about speculation but I talk about investment. We overspent so when you overspend you can’t speculate any further. You’ve got to control it and we kept it going for another period of time. In fairness there are more constraints on Gordon now, our salary levels are down because we’ve been prudent for the long-term interests of the Club.

Are we still looking at the possibility of a European League?

We’ve looked at all the avenues to develop Celtic through the European Commission, into the English Premier League and we continue to do that. I’ve spent hundreds of thousands per year of my own money to see how Celtic could be developed in the Premiership and elsewhere. That is a continuous process. There are a lot of intellectual people on the Board at Celtic and we are looking at all the options for the Club. We have never stopped and there are a lot of things that take place that can never be communicated publicly.

So the club are actively seeking membership of the English Premiership? Do we see this as the way forward for the Club to maximise our potential?

The situation is simply this. Celtic and Rangers with 60,000 and 50,000 supporters per week, not-withstanding Hearts performance, are really too big for the Scottish League and if any independent person looked at this and were asked where Celtic and Rangers should play they would say the Premiership. If the Premiership doesn’t want us for their own reasons that’s understandable in some ways. In other ways it would be a far better league. But again their membership can decide whether they want Celtic and Rangers in or not. There’s no point in me saying to you it’s forgotten about, it’s never forgotten about. While we think we should be there we’ll always pursue it directly and indirectly.

Ironically the standard of the English Premiership can be questioned. It’s a one horse League where at least half of that League are made up of mediocre teams where Celtic could certainly do well if teams like Wigan can be fighting for second place.

There’s no team in Europe, never mind the UK, who would not like to play at Celtic Park or Ibrox Park, because they are top venues to play at.

Regarding the takeover at Manchester United and with what’s happening at Tynecastle, it’s opened a lot of people’s eyes to the possibility that the same thing could happen at Celtic, whereby a multimillion pound faceless conglomerate can come along and threaten our traditions.

It could happen any day. Anyone who wants to buy shares can buy them. It’s a free market. Once you sell something in the market place anyone can come along and buy it. It’s a free world. You are entitled to buy a business if you have the money. People accept it and that’s life. It’s a public company. If it so happened I decided to sell my shares it could go to someone. But it’s not on my agenda at the present time. But at the same time I wouldn’t say they are locked up forever. I’m not going to last forever. My children will decide what to do with the shares. At Manchester United the supporters started kicking up saying this and that and they did the bullyboy tactics saying it would never happen and it happened and what’s happened now? It just goes on. Have the fans stopped going to the matches? They are still going to the matches. Are there any empty spaces? There are no empty spaces. This thing about threatening or bullying is all wrong. What matters to a Club in my personal view is that its traditions are maintained, that its development is maintained and it recognises all its constituents because constituents at a football club are the supporters, the players, the manager, staff and the directors.

Recognising the traditions at our Club and being an Irishman yourself, surely the last thing you would want to do is to sell out to a faceless conglomerate that could threaten our tradition?

The supporters at Celtic want a Russian billionaire because they want a Russian billionaire to throw money at it. They keep on telling me they want someone to throw money at it!

Some want money to be thrown at it but we want our traditions to remain too. If it came to the scenario when you were looking at selling would you bring your emotional attachment into play before your financial interest as you have stated?

If it was a financial investment I wouldn’t be underwriting the present share issue. So it’s an emotional investment. To be quite honest with you and I was criticised at the AGM for this but when you have a reaction to an outstanding Chairman like Brian Quinn who was booed at a match and if you have people coming up and abusing me about not putting the money in, after a while and this would be the same for major shareholders at any football clubs they lose their love for the club. I’m not saying that is going to happen to me because I’m really thick skinned. If people want to tackle me they’d better be up early in the morning. But I do think it’s completely unbalanced because if the Club does really well, say we won the UEFA Cup, the League and everything else it’s Martin O’Neill, Martin O’Neill, Martin O’Neill or Gordon Strachan as the case may be and then the players and then Martin O’Neill and then the players. It’s not any of the directors. We are nobody. We didn’t bring Martin or Gordon to the Club, we didn’t thrash out the contracts with the players. We didn’t create the structures. And if the Club goes wrong, if something happens and we don’t win the League like last year it’s the directors fault we didn’t win the League because we didn’t invest with Martin etc, etc. Everyone places the blame on the directors all the time. Supporters have a very coloured, blinkered and unbalanced view I think of how football is run and how they give the accolades and dish out criticism.

It can’t be said that the majority think this way or booed Brian Quinn?

I’m not saying it’s a majority. I’m saying it’s a section of the support. I’m talking about the ones that approach me. I never get letters of support. I only get letters of criticism. I think I’ve had one letter of support in my 11 years of being involved at Celtic. I’ve had plenty of letters of criticism.

What are your thoughts on waving the right to be the overall owner of Celtic in the new share issue?

I don’t want to own Celtic. I’m not interested in the ownership of Celtic. I’m not interested in controlling Celtic. It’s not on my agenda, it’s not my ambition. I am the largest shareholder in Celtic but I don’t want Celtic to be a subsidiary of mine. The only reason I am at this shareholding level is because nobody else put up money.

There are obviously some big name players out there with some money to spend in the market just now. I’m thinking of names like JP McManus and John Magnier who are associates of your own who sold their shares in Man United. Are they the kind of guys who would be courted to see if they had an interest in investing in Celtic?

I think JP McManus and John Magnier would always be good shareholders at the Club but it’s their decision. They have lots of varied interests and various commitments so it’s for them to decide or not, it’s not for me to suggest to them they should become shareholders.

They would be aware there’s a share issue and they could invest if they wanted to invest?

It’s all over the papers.

Like Fergus McCann do you want the supporters to have a large shareholding in the Club, which they didn’t have in the past?

We all want Celtic to be widely distributed and we want it to be in sufficiently strong hands, a community of people at Celtic with common interests in the development of the Club. That vision still stands today as it did 10 years ago and as it did 5 years ago.

So you welcome the ordinary fans investing in the Club because it’s our Club?

I always think that people should buy into Celtic.

A large percentage of the club is still owned by the fans. We have 18,000 individual shareholders which amount to 35% of the shareholding. Do you think this should be represented in the Boardroom?

No.

At every AGM the Celtic Trust, who are supported by the Celtic Supporters Association and a wide support of the fan base, put forward the proposal, you’re probably fed up listening to it but we’re never going to go away. Will it ever be considered?

I’ll give you the answer. First of all I’ve heard the Celtic Trust and I’ve heard their responses. But I believe the Celtic Trust people are self-serving individuals who only want to promote themselves and not promote the Club. That’s my impression from them on how they communicate through the newspapers and how they communicate at the AGM. We made it perfectly clear each time irrespective of who it is whether its supporters or Celtic Trust or anybody else for that matter, any other shareholders and there’s some substantial shareholders at Celtic who are not on the Board, everybody will be considered on merit. Not because you are of one sectional interest, whether you’re Irish, Catholic, Celtic Trust, Supporters Association, Glasgow, London, America, it’s simply whether you are a constituent that adds value to Celtic.

The present way of electing people to the Board is done through the Club whereby for example Brian Wilson is put forward. If the support were to go down the same road and nominate a candidate, someone who we thought would add value, would the Club consider it? Isn’t this the easy way round the current impasse?

I can’t speak for the Club but if I thought it was a real good person for the Club I’d vote for them with my shares. If I didn’t think they were a suitable candidate or would add value I’d vote against him.

You would take it on merit?

I always said I’d take it on merit.

The Celtic Trust isn’t going to go away so isn’t the easy way to deal with the issue to give it a chance rather than listening to the same business at every AGM but doing nothing about it?

They can put somebody up, they could put up Ms Findlay, she is well able to talk, she can put her case up and then we’ll have a vote. If she gets on then she gets on, if she doesn’t she doesn’t. It’s the same for anyone else. We’ve never not been open to that. We’ve always said the same things. If you go back to the AGMs, Brian Quinn has said it, I’ve said it, it will be merit based, it will purely operate on whether the candidate has the qualifications and the ability to continue to develop Celtic and he or she gets sufficient votes.

Where do you see the avenue for good ideas and suggestions from the fans outwith the Board? For example there was a resolution from the Trust last year regarding the dividend reinvestment scheme, which was on the back of a similar situation at Manchester Utd.

That was a very common thing where people can either reinvest in shares or take the money. Anybody can do that, there’s no big deal about that. We’ll take any suggestions. It’s not being evasive it’s not something startling, it’s just another option. My argument against the Celtic Trust, if I’m not mistaken, is when they criticised the Board for paying out a dividend. If you borrow money then you’ve got to pay interest or you borrow money through preference shares, which have a dividend then you have to pay it out. You can’t go round and start reneging. They started saying they shouldn’t be paid. This is the nonsensical approach that I dislike.

It’s very unfortunate, knowing the people involved, if that seems to be the way they’ve came across because that’s certainly not the way they’re trying to put their point across.

I read in the newspapers and its came across in the newspapers and it doesn’t make any sense whatsoever, it’s a very belligerent attack on the Board. When I talked about the Brian Quinn incident there was some negative comment from Ms. Findlay I think, now if she’s trying to get in my favour, getting on my side, by making comments that she did, saying what she did about the support and what she’d put into the Club and what she’d done, she is going the wrong way about it and the Celtic Trust are going the wrong way about it.

Taking the Trust out of the equation, where is the avenue for good ideas coming from the supporters?

Peter Lawwell or any member of the Board including myself, I’ve never said no to talking with anybody, there’s not one member of the Celtic supporters, any club or anybody who I’ve said no I’m not speaking to you. If anyone contacts me, I have always spoken to them, I will always listen to people. In my life I have spent my time listening because by listening I learn.

You have invested more money in the history of the club than anyone else yet you still get a bad press in some quarters. Why do you think this is?

I don’t know why it is because as you see here today I’m direct and outspoken. I’m telling it exactly as I see it, as I believe it so nobody is under any misapprehension of what my philosophy is. Secondly the Scottish Press, I won’t speak with them, and thirdly I’ve taken on the Scottish Press over some of the things that they’ve written. Fourthly what I don’t really understand is why Celtic people buy some of the papers in Scotland, especially The Record. I don’t even know whether any of the papers are left wing, right wing, blue green or anything else but I get copies of cuttings about Celtic here and The Record is to me, they print lies, and they do everything they can to create trouble and create division between Celtic and Rangers. They like to create trouble within Celtic and they like to create trouble between Celtic and Rangers. I can’t understand why anybody buys them.

The Supporters Association have actually led a boycott against the Daily Record for around three years since their Thugs and Thieves story. The editor eventually got sacked but that boycott still stands today as well as a boycott on The Sun so we know where you are coming from. This is an issue we have raised with the Club before that possibly we should be more pro active in attacking the papers that attack us. It seems in Scotland that with our traditions we are seen as an easy target. Sometimes it can be galling for the supporters if the Club do sit back and take the criticism of the Establishment media. The fans would love us to take a more pro-active role in exposing the attackers when it is deserved.

I’d see both sides. I’d be more like the fans. I’d have no time for them, I’d tell them where to get off. I am completely independent that’s why I won’t speak with them. They certainly will not give me any good Press, I’m not looking for it. I don’t want them to paint me in a good light. I just want them to relay or convey the truth. I don’t want them to distort my words. If I talk to the Celtic View or if I talk to yourself there will be some form of distortion. They will put up the headline "Desmond disagrees with whatever the case may be" or "Desmond and the Board are at loggerheads" or "Desmond and the Celtic Trust are this" they’ll find something. Something to create division amongst us. My view, the difference between us, they are not central differences, they are difference of style or the way we do things.

Do you share the same ambitions and the same goals as the fans?

I’m as passionate for Celtic’s success as you. I can’t say any less or any more but I’m passionate about Celtic succeeding.

Regarding your statement on the official website just after we had lost the League, the supporters were hurt and there was a lot of anger caused by it. Was there a lot of frustration on your part?

No, there was no frustration. I wanted to give that statement immediately when it happened but I refrained from saying it. That’s the first thing. Second of all I was at the Motherwell match, so I was there and felt all the pain. Thirdly is that the next Monday I had arranged for Martin and Gordon Strachan to meet at my house in London to go through the transition and everything else. So it was very painful for Martin that day and it was very painful for Gordon carrying the baton after that loss. What I said then, there was no frustration. It’s the official Celtic website, I’m entitled to say what I like on the website. It’s not the preserve of supporters or anybody else. I’m a shareholder on the Board and I can say what I like. So any suggestion that I need special permission from anybody, I don’t.

What the whole episode underlines for us is the need for what we’re trying to do just now which is to open up a direct line of communication and to open up a dialogue.

What I said was not out of frustration. I was embarrassed and I think it was disgraceful and I would say it again about the reaction from a section of the Celtic crowd that day to Brian Quinn, who has done gigantic work for the club, he has been unselfish, dedicated, balanced, visionary, respectful, every good adjective I could use he has been for the Club. When you see someone like that who is embarrassed by a section of the crowd, I would expect the majority who disagree with it to clap and knock down the din. To me that was a black day in my involvement with the Club. It was nearly as black as Seville was good. When things are bad and we were losing 2-0 that day, our history is when we are down our resolve is never to give in.

In the context of the whole statement your point about the booing of Brian Quinn may well be widely agreed with but our point is that it gets lost in half a dozen other points that people could pick fault at. We could list them.

List them all, I’m open, I’m well able to defend myself. I don’t mind.

You say "perhaps rather than criticising the Board who work tirelessly for the club the fans should take their ire out on those who make those false and outlandish statements without any comeback whatsoever", the fans DO boycott these papers. Our point is would it not be better rather than telling the fans what to do, especially as it’s something we already do, would it not be better if we had an open line of communication between the fans and yourself? If that was the message you wanted to put across wouldn’t it be better to show it to the fans representatives first?

I would not like to communicate with any fans who booed Brian Quinn that day. I don’t consider those to be Celtic fans.

The booing of Brian Quinn is just one point on the statement.

Ok, next point. The point about the papers, what I’m saying is why don’t you direct your anger at where it should be directed to the unbalanced coverage that Celtic get in certain sections of the Scottish Press.

We do that, that’s what we’re saying.

Was I right in what I said or not?

Yes but when you say the fans should take our ire out on the papers it sounds as if we are not doing that.

I’m not saying that. I’m not saying you are not doing it. I’m saying those fans who booed should take out their ire on the papers.

You say you have never heard fans come up to you and ask that the season ticket prices are doubled so we can buy players, there is not a group of fans in world football who have backed their Club more than Celtic fans, through share issues and season ticket sales. Season tickets in the last 10 years HAVE doubled and more and we have over 53,000 season ticket holders so to attack those fans is unfair.

No, no I’ll give you the answer to that. When the fans come along to me, I’ve come through on these share issues, I’ve put in a multiple of any fan. The amount I spend on Celtic business in a year is substantial, it’s thousands upon thousands that I’ve spent in a year. My point is this, everyone comes along to me and says to me to put more money into Celtic. Like when I was at the CIS Cup game against Rangers and I get three or four people who come up to me all the time and say the same to me. Can you imagine if I came along to you and say come on double your season tickets, pay twice as much, how would you like it?

We would say season tickets have doubled in price. Again our point is that if this statement covers all the points you want to make in the current form, fans can easily pick holes in it. Would it not be better for you to put out a statement that more fans can agree with?

Fans will always disagree. I get it all the time. Even when we’re winning all the European matches, give Martin more money, give Martin more money was the chant.

What we’re trying to emphasise is the benefits of involvement with the fans, for instance if you were considering a statement like this, if it was put before the supporters groups eyes first we could give advice.

I don’t do that. I don’t do that. I don’t go through any special process just like I didn’t bring a lawyer here or a PR person or I didn’t say you can’t ask me this question or that, I give you the answers and that’s the way I do it. I’m not a prisoner of the Celtic support, I’m not going to act the way they want me to act, I’m going to act in the honest way that Dermot Desmond thinks and believes in and what is in the best interests of Celtic all the time.

The way the statement comes across is as if the fans say speculate to accumulate, splash the cash, which you say leads to bankruptcy, but what the majority of fans are asking for is that the limited budget is spent wisely. Fans aren’t really asking that we are made bankrupt.

These people are saying this and most of them are not financially astute, that’s the reality. So here I am taking advice from these people and they’re saying spend the funds wisely. That’s not spending wisely, that’s confliction and I can’t take that as a statement at all because most of them say buy a player, we don’t care about balance sheets or profit and loss statements, they just want the player they think we could get. If Roy Keane was going for 5 million they’d say get Roy Keane for 5 million. I’m not saying whether Roy Keane is worth 5 million or not, I’d love to see Roy Keane playing for Celtic myself but that’s not my decision, its the manager’s decision, Roy Keane's decision and Manchester United's decision. A lot of it is out of my control.

The vast majority of the support call for the budget to be spent wisely, they don’t call for splash the cash, speculate wildly to accumulate. What the general consensus is calling for is that the Manager is given the funds to be spent wisely, which would not bankrupt the Club. In fact there’s an argument that if we don’t spend the money wisely at the right times for example after Seville that it is detrimental to the Club in the long term not to spend. That’s the other side of the argument.

You can spend money in two different ways. We could get into a debate, spending money is not just on the transfer fee, it’s also on the annual salaries. You can spend your budget by paying people big wages. We’ve got guys on big wages at Celtic Park. That eats into our capital so you might be better off paying transfer fees for some people than spending more on wages, it might be more economic in that way. These are issues that we, Peter Lawwell and the Board discuss all the time. Excluding me they’re very smart men on the Celtic Board!

On the pitch, do you get excited watching the current Celtic team playing the passing game and playing the Celtic way? Does it excite you in particular to see the young players coming through for example McManus, Maloney, Beattie, McGeady, Wallace, Marshall, all young Celtic talent coming through?

It does. The manner in which we are playing football I think everyone likes at the present time. I think that Gordon has recognised he has had a number of weaknesses on the team and he is planning ahead and the whole Board is working with him and it’s nice to have the young players coming on and I think there’s a few more young players coming on so we’re looking to improve all the time. I think it’s too early for us to say we’re there, we’re not there because we have a long way to go, to be jubilant, I think we’ve got to be level headed. A few months ago we wanted to throw the Manager out and if you listened to the Press and a lot of supporters we wanted to change everything and we wanted most of the players gone. Now Camara is not too bad, McManus is all right, so you know what the message is? Don’t listen to people’s first reaction!

Crashing out of Europe was obviously a financial disaster for the club. Will Gordon Strachan be forced into selling the likes of Stan Petrov and John Hartson to balance the books at the end of the season?

First of all there’s the rights issue, which creates a level of independence to the finance but second of all none of those decisions have been made or are in the pipeline. Of the players you have mentioned, Petrov has been an outstanding player with Celtic for over six years and who reflects all that is good about the Club. Personally I would hate to lose him but again that is for Gordon to decide. From our conversations I’m sure he feels the same way as me. Secondly John Hartson has scored a lot of goals for Celtic and will continue to score goals for Celtic and no Manager likes to lose a goal scorer.

Your other great love is golf. Is this how you relax away from football and business or do you retain your competitive edge?

I like to play golf, it’s therapeutic, golf picks me up. I’m still an optimist so I think I can get a little better as the years pass on but that’s not proving to be the case! I enjoy playing golf with my kids and with friends and it’s a great opportunity to see a few nice places around the world whilst playing golf too.

Do you ever take the opportunity to mix business with pleasure and maybe bring Tiger Woods along to Celtic Park or organise a Celtic Charity Tournament?

A number of golfers, including Tiger, know I’m involved with Celtic and Mark O'Meara and a few others always ask how Celtic are doing. It’s all part and parcel of the game when we’re playing alongside each other and cheering one another on.

The Supporters Association has a direct line of communication with the Club through the Working Party Meetings and the 1 to 1 Meetings with the Chief Executive Peter Lawwell. Would you see it as mutually beneficial to open up a dialogue with the support too and set up Meetings as a regular fixture?

No, I’m very busy. I don’t like having meetings in my diary fixed but you can pick up the phone if a situation arises, ask for my opinion and I’ll give you my five minutes worth. I’m not going to cut out time for meetings as I don’t do it for anybody. Time is too valuable for me. Also I don’t think I’m out of touch with the Celtic support. I’m very happy for you to pick up the phone and say I’m concerned about this or that and I’ll give you my view.

Do you see the benefits of talking openly to the fans who unlike the media, will not sensationalise or misrepresent your views but simply seek to get a balanced exchange of opinions?

I’ve given you an honest answer to every question, I don’t have to work for anyone and that’s the reason why I’m so open. When it comes to meetings I don’t like formalised meetings. But if there’s an issue or issues to be discussed with me I’m quite happy to discuss them over the phone and if we need to have a meeting then we’ll have a meeting but I don’t want to say every month or every two months we have to meet.

The atmosphere at home games now isn’t as good as it should be since the creation of all seater stadiums. To address this there’s a group which was started up from the Supporters Association called the Jungle Bhoys with the initiative to recreate the atmosphere and get us back to the days when we were the 12^th man supporting the team through 90 minutes win, lose or draw. We have started the initiative to get a singing section set up and we’re behind the card displays etc that you might have seen at Celtic Park trying to get a bit of colour back to the stadium. Do you support this kind of initiative?

I’ve felt over the years, and I know Martin felt this way too, that whether fans are sitting down or not, the Celtic support has become apprehensive when we’ve fallen behind or we’re only 1-0 up. You can feel the nervousness in the stands. I think whether the fans are sitting down or standing up I’ve no opinion but I do have an opinion that the team needs continuous support for the full 90 minutes because the nervousness is felt on the pitch. You can certainly feel it when the match is in the balance. The supporters get tense, they stop singing, they stop cheering and it goes onto the field and I think the Celtic support must get together so it’s continuous support even if we’re 1-0 or 2-0 down it’s going on all the time. I thought a good demonstration of that was the home Artmedia game, we failed, but there was continuous cheering and bantering.

That’s exactly what the Jungle Bhoys are trying to do, set up a singing section for people who want to get right behind the team win lose or draw and hopefully act as a catalyst to the rest of the ground.

What was your thoughts when the Brother Walfrid statue was recently unveiled at Celtic Park?

I think it’s a fitting tribute and recognition to this great man who was instrumental in creating a great history. It was all before him at that stage but he can look down on it with lots of pleasure and a big smile and hopefully he can look forward to looking down on it with more pleasure in the future.

Finally what would be your message to the Celtic support? What are your ambitions for the Club? What drives you on?

My message would be to continue to be the best supporters in the world. It would be for everyone to work as a team and not to seek division or see it as them and us, we’re all working together. I think also we won’t be rushed into making a decision, we are trying to make the right decision all the time and if we believe it is the right decision we will stick with it and we will give everybody a fair chance.

Do you share the ambitions of the support to get us back to the top?

Everything that I have done with the Board at the Club has been to bring Celtic to the pinnacle, that’s our goal. We’ve never compromised on our goal. Everything we do is to make Celtic independent, flourishing and the most successful football club in the world.

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